Da Capo Conversations 2.0 with Nanette McGuinness and Zanaida Robles

For Good Measure, by Ensemble for These Times (E4TT)
Episode 216: Da Capo Conversations 2.0 with Nanette McGuinness and Zanaida Robles

Looking for a way to listen to diverse creators and to support equity in the arts? Tune in weekly to For Good Measure!

Today we revisit Nanette McGuinness’ and Zanaida Robles’ advice to emerging artists. If you enjoyed today’s conversation and want to know more about Nanette McGuinness and Zanaida Robles, check them out here and here. Parts of this episode originally premiered in May 2024, click here, and May 2025, click here.

This podcast is made possible by grants from the California Arts Council, SF Arts Commission, Grants for the Arts, and generous donors like you. Want to support For Good Measure and E4TT? Make a tax-deductible donation or sign up for our newsletter, and subscribe to the podcast!

Intro music: “Trifolium” by Gabriela Ortiz, performed by E4TT (Ilana Blumberg, violin; Abigail Monroe, cello; Margaret Halbig, piano), as part of “Below the Surface: Music by Women Composers,” January 29, 2022
Outro music: “Lake Turkana” by Marcus Norris, performed by E4TT (Margaret Halbig, piano), as part of “Alchemy,” October 15, 2021

Transcription courtesy of Otter.ai.
Buzzsprout: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1903729/episodes/19493256

Co-Producer, Host, and E4TT co-founder: Nanette McGuinness
Co-Producer and Audio Engineer: Stephanie M. Neumann
Podcast Cover Art: Brennan Stokes
Interns: Renata Volchinskaya, Sam Mason, Christy Xu

Transcript

Nanette McGuinness  00:00

[INTRO MUSIC] Welcome to For Good Measure, an interview series celebrating diverse composers and other creative artists. I'm Nanette McGuinness, Artistic Executive Director of Ensemble for These Times. In this week's episode, we continue our Da Capo Conversations, a mini-series where we'll be giving familiar segments a topical twist. [INTRO MUSIC ENDS] Today, we revisit my and Zanaida Robles' advice for young or emerging composers and artists. Here's what I had to say.

Nanette McGuinness  00:38

There are many people who are good at music, many people, and many of them become doctors and engineers. The ones who become musicians are the ones who must, the ones whose spirits are incomplete if they don't do it. If that's you, don't give up. Hone your craft. Network. Make opportunities. Enrich your life. Have a day job or something to fall back on if it doesn't work out. Because you don't want to be age 40 and have nothing worked out, and you know just doing a job you hate. But, but still... realize there's only one you, and only one person with your voice. Whether you're a composer, a singer, an instrumentalist, whatever it is, you may have to change the way your path is working. It may turn out differently from what you expect, but if that's you, make that happen.

Nanette McGuinness  01:46

Here's what Zanaida Robles had to say.

Zanaida Robles  01:49

Yeah, an emerging composer can be any age. By the way, I just want to say that. Like, I considered myself an emerging composer like five years ago. Like, I just emerged. I don't know if I maybe I'm still emerging, and I think that's really important to say because I didn't think that I was gonna be a composer. Like I didn't see myself that way, and so I would just say if you compose music, you're a composer. If you've composed a piece, you are a composer. Your work is valid. You're and keep working on it. If you you know you, it's it's just important that if you enjoy the craft, you you compose. I I think that and and I always the measure of whether or not you're I I don't know doing what you're what you're supposed to be doing is would you do it anyway even if you weren't even if you weren't the best at it, would you do it anyway? Would you do it anyway? Even if you weren't getting paid, are you doing it anyway? You know, that's how you know you're supposed to be doing something. I was composing before I was ever paid for. Most, I mean, all composers probably. You're composed. You just. It's just something that comes out of you because we're humans, and humans have to. Humans are expressive creatures. Yeah, we have to express, and if that's your mode of expression, you do it because you have to do it. Like you're internally, you're called to do it, and you know, don't let... always,  always be true to yourself. If you're doing it because somebody told you, oh, you should do this because you're good at it...

Nanette McGuinness  03:21

mmm...

Zanaida Robles  03:21

...that's honestly not a good reason to do it. T he reason to do it is you feel compelled to do it because your heart's telling you, you love it and you want it, or you can't. You have to get it out. You know that's that's sort of what happened, how it worked for me, and and it hasn't steered me wrong. And when I listen to this, this is my heart. Yeah, it it tends to work out when I listen to other people. Not to say don't take advice. I mean, I'm sure there are great people in your life where you take it. You know, listen to advice, but but listen to this mostly, and that you know, and don't and don't do it just because somebody said this is what you should do, or you got to have a backup plan, or you got to, you know, it doesn't work that way. You  have to do what, what's inside, what you feel called to do. Find that, and you'll find a good degree of satisfaction.

Nanette McGuinness  04:13

Yeah, what the little voice inside says you have to do.

Zanaida Robles  04:16

Yeah .

Nanette McGuinness  04:17

I always say, and I've said this for a long time. There are many, many talented musical people in the world, and many of them become doctors, engineers, and scientists. The ones who become musicians... o kay, some of them do it because their family has done it, and that's...

Zanaida Robles  04:33

Yeah.

Nanette McGuinness  04:33

...musical trade. But most of us who stick in this industry have to do it for our spirits to feel complete.

Zanaida Robles  04:42

Yep, it's that exactly. It's exactly... There's no way I'm doing this for the money. It's not money. Oh my god, no! But yet, I'm doing it. I'm doing it because it's what I... I believe I was made to do.

Nanette McGuinness  05:00

Yeah. 

Zanaida Robles  05:00

Um, and it's okay if, and actually, it's okay to do it, even if you don't feel like you were made to do it. It's okay. You you gotta you gotta listen to what... if your, if your heart's telling you, doing this is what's gonna fulfill me. Doing this is what's gonna make me happy. Doing this is what's gonna... you maybe one day maybe something you know doing this, this gig is gonna pay a bill. Okay, fine. It can pay a bill. It's okay. It's okay, but, but don't let that. Don't let the whole. You know, I gotta make it. You know, to, to be a value to anyone, or I gotta make it in order to be a value to myself. What does make it mean? It means nothing.

Nanette McGuinness  05:35

It's a moving target.

Zanaida Robles  05:37

Do you feel fulfilled when you, when you work on... when you do this work?

Nanette McGuinness  05:43

[OUTRO MUSIC] Thank you for listening to For Good Measure's Da Capo Conversations, and a special thank you to our guests for joining us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our podcast by clicking on the subscribe button and support us by sharing it with your friends, posting about it on social media and leaving us a rating and a review. To learn more about E4TT, our concert season online and in the Bay Area, or to make a tax-deductible donation, please visit us at www.E4TT.org. This podcast is made possible by grants from the California Arts Council, the San Francisco Arts Commission, Grants for the Arts, and generous donors like you. For Good Measure is produced by Nanette McGuinness and Ensemble for These Times, and design by Brennan Stokes, with special thanks to Co-producer and Audio Engineer Stephanie M. Neumann. Remember to keep supporting equity in the arts and tune in next week "for good measure." [OUTRO MUSIC ENDS]