Da Capo Conversations 2.0 with Vivian Fung and Ursula Kwong-Brown

For Good Measure, by Ensemble for These Times (E4TT)
Episode 188: Da Capo Conversations 2.0 with Vivian Fung and Ursula Kwong-Brown

Looking for a way to listen to diverse creators and to support equity in the arts? Tune in weekly to For Good Measure!

Today we revisit Vivian Fung’s and Ursula Kwong-Brown’s perspectives on how their identity and culture has impacted their music making or career. If you enjoyed today’s conversation and want to know more about Vivian Fung and Ursula Kwong-Brown, check them out here and here. Parts of this episode originally premiered in March 2022, click here, and November 2024, click here.

This podcast is made possible by grants from the California Arts Council, SF Arts Commission, Grants for the Arts, and generous donors like you. Want to support For Good Measure and E4TT? Make a tax-deductible donation or sign up for our newsletter, and subscribe to the podcast!

Intro music: “Trifolium” by Gabriela Ortiz, performed by E4TT (Ilana Blumberg, violin; Abigail Monroe, cello; Margaret Halbig, piano), as part of “Below the Surface: Music by Women Composers,” January 29, 2022
Outro music: “Lake Turkana” by Marcus Norris, performed by E4TT (Margaret Halbig, piano), as part of “Alchemy,” October 15, 2021

Transcription courtesy of Otter.ai.
Buzzsprout: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1903729/episodes/18451895

Co-Producer, Host, and E4TT co-founder: Nanette McGuinness
Co-Producer and Audio Engineer: Stephanie M. Neumann
Podcast Cover Art: Brennan Stokes
Interns: Renata Volchinskaya, Sam Mason, Christy Xu

Chapters

• 0:29 Today we revisit Vivian Fung's and Ursula Kwong-Brown's perspectives on how their identity and culture have impacted their music making or career. Here's what Vivian Fung had to say.
• 5:28 Here's what Ursula Kwong-Brown had to say.

Transcript

Nanette McGuinness  00:00

[INTRO MUSIC] Welcome to For Good Measure, an interview series celebrating diverse composers and other creative artists. I'm Nanette McGuinness, Artistic Executive Director of Ensemble for These Times. In this week's episode, we continue our Da Capo Conversations, a mini series where we'll be giving familiar segments a topical twist. [INTRO MUSIC ENDS] Today we revisit Vivian Fung's and Ursula Kwong-Brown's perspectives on how their identity and culture have impacted their music making or career. Here's what Vivian Fung had to say.

Vivian Fung  00:41

Yeah, that's, that's, that's the thing that I think was most difficult for me. I mean, growing up, I grew up in Canada, and I was, you know, I can remember in my elementary school, I was routinely called a chink, and I was like, you know, was, you know it was, it was discrimination and just a lack of awareness of where I came from and what that meant. And then, you know, when I was in college, I didn't really have, I mean, I had mentors, and I'm grateful for my mentors, but I didn't really have someone I could talk to you about all these issues that you know have become so important to me, like identity and like gender and also building a life around being composer, not just writing music, but all the things that you have to do as human, having a family, you know, building a life around it. And so when it comes to me giving back now, now that I'm in my 40s, I find it really important to talk about these things, and that's I love to do that as part of mentoring the next generation of composers. I don't see myself as particularly, you know one thing or another, I don't just compose right and what comes comes out, comes out. But I think you know, of course, it's nature, nurture type of thing. Of course, your environment influences your being and your music. And I think a lot of the differences between Canada the US are socio economic, you know, as far as the political infrastructure, each of the countries, they're very, very different, and that leads to differences in cultural tendencies, right? And so I would say that it's neither good or bad or better or worse, it's just very different. One thing I've noticed is, you know, in Canada, being a Commonwealth country, there is an affinity to more of the French or British influences that it, you know, there is that sort of tradition that is, is that Canadians are proud of, especially in Quebec, with the tradition of the French. But I think you know that those generalizations are, again, it's, it's their generalizations. But I do think that, you know, with infrastructure of Canada, having the support of the government, that makes a huge difference. As far as you know, what gets programmed and what content there is there versus here. I lived in New York for almost 30 years and and you know, you had the concentration of musicians there, and life, which is really rich, and New York is known for being a hub of cultural activity on the West Coast. I you know, in the Bay Area, things are a lot more spread out. So, you know, you have a lot of activity going on, but you not necessarily get to know about it because of the geographic spread. It's, I think there are, there's still a wealth of new music being written and being cultivated. It's just being spread out over this huge geographic area. So it can be a little bit trickier just because of that. But I think, you know, being here for, you know, a number of years, I've also gotten to know fabulous musicians to collaborate with. So I guess I, you know. For me, I had the best of all worlds because, you know, having lived on the East Coast, I still connect with, you know, my friends on the East Coast and the West Coast, and making new friends here, and then being Canadian, I always have that, you know, to go back to, and I still work with a lot of the groups up there. So I have all this trifecta of different groups that I get to work with, which is great.

Nanette McGuinness  05:28

Here's what Ursula Kwong-Brown had to say.

Ursula Kwong-Brown  05:32

I think that just being the only person who looks like you in a room or on a given program is in itself hard. And I almost feel like I don't deserve to say it's hard, because I'm sure it's harder for people who are black or brown than for me just being Asian, but I was often the only Asian person in my school or, like, in the whole building, you know, and so like that that's hard. You just feel other, even if nobody is being actively hostile, you just feel like you don't belong, or that you're only there because they need I mean, I can't tell you the number of people who've, like, been like, oh, we need some diversity. Do you have anything? It's just like, Okay. Like, I'm glad you need your care about diversity, but like, Could you, like, pretend it was because you liked my music, but like, it's okay, it's okay.

Nanette McGuinness  06:28

Yeah, so it opened the door, but it still felt insulting somehow, right?

Ursula Kwong-Brown  06:31

Yeah. I mean, I don't say no, but it's like, you know,

Nanette McGuinness  06:37

Yeah, so having teachers who are like, you would have made a difference.

Ursula Kwong-Brown  06:42

Yes, I think, I think it would definitely make a difference. I especially in the electronic music world, which is all men, you know, and it's just like, just generally, a space that's all men too, like a building that's on the classrooms that all meant, like you're just, you just feel so uncomfortable because you're like, the only xx, you know, chromosome like, in the room. You know, it just feels, you know, all the jokes are about sex, like, like everybody, you just sort of like, laugh along. Because, like, what else do you do? You know, but it's hard to feel like at home, right?

Nanette McGuinness  07:21

You always feel othered in one way or another?

Ursula Kwong-Brown  07:24

Yes

Nanette McGuinness  07:24

[OUTRO MUSIC] Thank you for listening to For Good Measure's Da Capo Conversations, and a special thank you to our guests for joining us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our podcast by clicking on the subscribe button and support us by sharing it with your friends, posting about it on social media and leaving us a rating and a review. To learn more about E4TT, our concert season online and in the Bay Area, or to make a tax-deductible donation, please visit us at www.E4TT.org. This podcast is made possible by grants from the California Arts Council, the San Francisco Arts Commission, Grants for the Arts, and generous donors like you. For Good Measure is produced by Nanette McGuinness and Ensemble for These Times, and design by Brennan Stokes, with special thanks to Co-producer and Audio Engineer Stephanie M. Neumann. Remember to keep supporting equity in the arts and tune in next week "for good measure." [OUTRO MUSIC ENDS]