Carla Lucero - Part 3

For Good Measure, by Ensemble for These Times (E4TT)
Episode 116: Carla Lucero - Part 3

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In this week’s episode, we talk to Carla Lucero about being her own librettist versus collaborating with other lyricists, and how composing is narrative-driven for her, no matter the genre or musical forces. If you enjoyed today’s conversation and want to know more about Carla Lucero, check her out here: https://carlalucero.com/. This episode was originally recorded in February 2024.

This podcast is made possible in part by a grant from the California Arts Council and generous donors, like you. Want to support For Good Measure and E4TT? Make a tax-deductible donation or sign up for our newsletter, and subscribe to the podcast!

Intro music: “Trifolium” by Gabriela Ortiz, performed by E4TT (Ilana Blumberg, violin; Abigail Monroe, cello; Margaret Halbig, piano),  as part of “Below the Surface: Music by Women Composers,” January 29, 2022
Outro music: “Lake Turkana” by Marcus Norris, performed by E4TT (Margaret Halbig, piano), as part of “Alchemy,” October 15, 2021

Transcription courtesy of Otter.ai.
Buzzsprout: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1903729/15412900

Producer, Host, and E4TT co-founder: Nanette McGuinness
Co-producer and Audio Engineer: Stephanie M. Neumann
Podcast Cover Art: Brennan Stokes
Interns: Renata Volchinskaya, Sam Mason, Hannah Chen

Curious to hear a little music from our guest Ursula Kwong-Brown, who we spoke to in our most recent episode, check out the world premiere of the work she just wrote for us, which we are performing on our season opening concert November 8.

Chapters

• 0:35 In this week's episode, we continue our conversation with Carla Lucero, who we spoke to in February 2024.
• 0:48 You are a double-if not, many more-threat, you know, triple quadruple threat. You also write your libretti. So, when you are your librettist, are you writing the libretto with the music or do you write the libretto first? Does it go in tandem? How does...
• 4:12 Do you like when you're your own librettist or co-librettist? Or do you like it better when someone hands you the text that you then have to maybe mold a bit?
• 9:01 If you were writing an instrumental piece, because you write a lot of opera and a lot of vocal music. But if you're writing instrumental music, where there's no text, what's your process, then?

Transcript

Nanette McGuinness  00:00
[INTRO MUSIC] Welcome to For Good Measure, an interview series celebrating diverse composers and other creative artists sponsored by a grant from the California Arts Council. I'm Nanette McGuinness, Artistic Executive Director of Ensemble for These Times. In this week's episode, we continue our conversation with Carla Lucero, who we spoke to in February 2024. [INTRO MUSIC ENDS] I want to circle back to a couple of things you've mentioned. We'll hit them again, probably later on, but you are a double-if not, many more-threat, you know, triple quadruple threat. You also write your libretti. So, when you are your librettist, are you writing the libretto with the music or do you write the libretto first? Does it go in tandem? How does that work?

Carla Lucero  00:55
Officially I would say, the thing that has to happen is that before I actually embark on composition in earnest, I do need the libretto. But at the beginning, they are working in tandem the music, the libretto, because I'm already shaping text I'm already you know, I'm already doing work that I normally would do when I send it back to the librettist. Wait, I need something with this many syllables instead, or I need a big vowel at the end instead of you know, in a consonant. Right. I'm already doing that. So you know, while while I'm while I'm writing the libretto, so. So it's both things that are happening at the same time. And like I said before, like I usually know how something's going, I have pretty much a full picture. But I really know how it's going to start and how it's going to end. So I'm, while I'm writing, I'm keeping these things in mind, musically. So that and then of course, the chart helps as well. So I have this full idea. And then as I write the libretto, once, I'd like to say, okay, you know, I've got to really concentrate on on writing the libretto so that the story makes sense. Not just to me, once that starts, that process starts, then I become more of a writer, where I'm really looking at the dramatic arc of the story and the different subplots, and the hierarchy of the characters and all of that. So that that is a completely different process.

Nanette McGuinness  02:55
Yes.

Carla Lucero  02:56
So that happens. And then I go back, and I I do for the parts that I really wasn't thinking about, you know, musically, or more dramatically, go back and start to edit and you know, like, "Oh, my God, what was I thinking?" [laughs] Exactly. So, so yeah, so then, you know, after it's done, then I'm off to the races in terms of composing and that it's usually when I start composing chronologically, I'm usually kind of all over the map. And I may wake up in the morning and think, "Oh, my gosh, I have this great idea for this," you know, the melody for this aria, and I'll write and it's right smack in the middle of the opera, but those things, you know, will come to me. But in terms of writing chronologically, it really starts when I'm finished with the libretto.

Nanette McGuinness  03:56
Okay, okay, that makes sense. Do you like when you're your own librettist or co-librettist? Or do you like it better when someone hands you the text that you then have to maybe mold a bit?

Carla Lucero  04:08
I like both. I think at first when I was when I hadn't had as much experience with creating operas. I felt like I had to really control all of those aspects. Because I knew what I was hearing but I but I was kind of afraid to... and I already had the story in my mind. I was afraid to entrust it to somebody that was me being very young, you know, and not really understanding what the process was. And not also trusting my work in somebody more my idea than somebody else's hands.

Nanette McGuinness  04:49
Right.

Carla Lucero  04:50
Now, I've been so fortunate to to work with some really great librettists, either as a co-librettist or them just being the librettist that I understand like this, it's it's a relationship that has to develop over time. And it's a relationship of trust.

Nanette McGuinness  05:14
Oh, yeah.

Carla Lucero  05:15
Right?

Nanette McGuinness  05:16
Yeah.

Carla Lucero  05:17
And knowing, knowing that writers work and knowing if they're, if they are best for your project, or not, so I tend to, if I am seeking, if I'm seeking out a librettist, I tend to want to look at their work to see if it's, if we understand each other on a more like, well, you know, what's in your heart? You know, what are your values? What, you know, that's where it starts, because so much of my work is rooted in social justice.

Nanette McGuinness  05:50
Right.

Carla Lucero  05:51
It has to start there, then I take a look at the work that they've done before. And then and then get to know them. Personally, you can usually get a good sense of who somebody is, by their writing.

Nanette McGuinness  06:08
Writing is clear and honest.

Carla Lucero  06:12
Yes, exactly. You know, creating offers is a very lonely, lonely task, because it takes so long, you're working hard and you don't you're not really working with anybody. If you're creating it yourself, both librettist and composer. The only time you come up for air and you're interacting with other people is like during the workshop process.

Nanette McGuinness  06:41
Right, Right.

Carla Lucero  06:43
So you don't have somebody to bounce ideas off of, or, you know, that type of thing. So it's much more fun to have, you know, a co-librettist or have a librettist that you're working with. It's a lot of fun. It could also be a disaster. [laughs]

Nanette McGuinness  07:01
[laughs] A marriage ending in divorce, right?

Carla Lucero  07:05
Oh gosh, yeah. It's like, "Oh, what was I thinking? I didn't do my research." And that rarely happens. And everybody I've worked with is brilliant. But it's...but it's like, "Is that brilliance? Does that brilliance jibe with the project or r with who I am?" You know?

Nanette McGuinness  07:28
Yeah, and you don't have to answer this and it's certainly not one of the things that's on the list of questions. But have you been in a situation where the anticipated match was, as you say, disastrous, where you had to extricate yourself?

Carla Lucero  07:43
No.

Nanette McGuinness  07:44
Good.

Carla Lucero  07:45
So yeah, I stay the course, even if it's a less than ideal situation or partnership.

Nanette McGuinness  07:54
Right.

Carla Lucero  07:55
Because the big picture is what's important. And, and I can say, honestly, that I have stayed friends, with everybody that I've worked with in that capacity.

Nanette McGuinness  08:09
Impressive.

Carla Lucero  08:12
But you understand, it's, it's when you figure out that your working styles are not really that compatible, then it creates frustration, but you have to always think you know what, "That's that person's working style." Or, you know, and and does that mean, I don't like the person? No, not at all. I mean, they can still adore that person. But would I work with them again? [laughs] Would I invite them to a party? Yes.

Nanette McGuinness  08:43
That's a very mature way of looking at the whole process, so good for you. If you were writing an instrumental piece, because you write a lot of opera and a lot of vocal music. But if you're writing instrumental music, where there's no text, what's your process, then?

Carla Lucero  09:00
It's interesting that you, you're asking this because I think I am so narrative driven. And even, even without lyrics, though, I have so much experience in writing music for dance.

Nanette McGuinness  09:16
Ah ha!

Carla Lucero  09:17
Lots.

Nanette McGuinness  09:18
Okay.

Carla Lucero  09:19
And there's always in my mind, a narrative.

Nanette McGuinness  09:28
Right.

Carla Lucero  09:29
So, so I'm very comfortable creating, composing music without text. Super comfortable. I love the human voice so much that I prefer, you know, writing for singers.

Nanette McGuinness  09:44
I'm certainly not prejudiced in that direction. [laughs]

Carla Lucero  09:47
[laughs] I thought you'd like that one.

Nanette McGuinness  09:51
Yeah, yeah.

Carla Lucero  09:52
That's my, that's my preference. I love writing film music. But again, this is...they both have narratives.

Nanette McGuinness  09:59
Right. You're story driven, no matter what is what you're saying?

Carla Lucero  10:03
Absolutely, yeah.

Nanette McGuinness  10:04
[OUTRO MUSIC] Thank you for listening to For Good Measure, and a special thank you to our guest, Carla Lucero, for joining us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our podcast by clicking on the subscribe button, and support us by sharing it with your friends, posting about it on social media, and leaving us a rating and a review. To learn more about E4TT, our concert season online and in the Bay Area, or to make a tax-deductible donation, please visit us at e4tt.org. This podcast is made possible in part by a grant from the California Arts Council and generous donors like you. For Good Measure is produced by Nanette McGuinness and Ensemble for These Times, and design by Brennan Stokes, with special thanks to co-producer and audio engineer Stephanie M. Neumann. Remember to keep supporting equity in the arts and tune in next week "for good measure." [OUTRO MUSIC ENDS]