Carla Lucero - Part 1

For Good Measure, by Ensemble for These Times (E4TT)
Episode 114: Carla Lucero - Part 1

Looking for a way to listen to diverse creators and to support equity in the arts? Tune in weekly to For Good Measure!

In this week’s episode, we talk to Carla Lucero about her musical journey, her path to becoming a composer, and her experiences as a woman composer. If you enjoyed today’s conversation and want to know more about Carla Lucero, check her out here: https://carlalucero.com/. This episode was originally recorded in February 2024.

This podcast is made possible in part by a grant from the California Arts Council and generous donors, like you. Want to support For Good Measure and E4TT? Make a tax-deductible donation or sign up for our newsletter, and subscribe to the podcast!

Intro music: “Trifolium” by Gabriela Ortiz, performed by E4TT (Ilana Blumberg, violin; Abigail Monroe, cello; Margaret Halbig, piano),  as part of “Below the Surface: Music by Women Composers,” January 29, 2022
Outro music: “Lake Turkana” by Marcus Norris, performed by E4TT (Margaret Halbig, piano), as part of “Alchemy,” October 15, 2021

Transcription courtesy of Otter.ai.
Buzzsprout: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1903729/15412775

Producer, Host, and E4TT co-founder: Nanette McGuinness
Co-producer and Audio Engineer: Stephanie M. Neumann
Podcast Cover Art: Brennan Stokes
Interns: Renata Volchinskaya, Sam Mason, Hannah Chen

Curious to hear a little music from our guest Ursula Kwong-Brown, who we spoke to in our most recent episode? Check out the world premiere of the piece she wrote for us, you can find it on our YouTube channel.

Chapters

• 0:38 In this week's episode, we're joined by Carla Lucero, who we spoke to in February 2024.
• 0:56 You started out training to be a concert pianist, but longing to be a composer. What drew you to being a pianist initially? And could you talk about your musical journey? Also, what gave you the courage to change your goal and follow that dream?
• 7:35 Would your path have been different in any way if you've been able to see yourself reflected in your mentors and teachers in school, I get the Pauline Oliveros was, thank goodness there for you to look up to once you did some digging around or were...

Transcript

Nanette McGuinness  00:00
[INTRO MUSIC BEGINS] Welcome to For Good Measure, an interview series celebrating diverse composers and other creative artists sponsored by a grant from the California Arts Council. I'm Nanette McGuinness, Artistic Executive Director of Ensemble for These Times. In this week's episode, we're joined by Carla Lucero, who we spoke to in February 2024. [INTRO MUSIC ENDS] Thank you for agreeing to do this interview with us. It's really nice to meet you in-person.

Carla Lucero  00:37
Yeah, I feel the same way, Nanette, I know!

Nanette McGuinness  00:40
You started out training to be a concert pianist, but longing to be a composer. What drew you to being a pianist initially? And could you talk about your musical journey? Also, what gave you the courage to change your goal and follow that dream?

Carla Lucero  00:56
Well, I was told that I came out of the womb as a musical person.

Nanette McGuinness  01:01
[Laughs]

Carla Lucero  01:03
My parents told me that when I was a baby, they'd be singing a tune, you know, on the radio, and there's a radio going and they'd be singing, and my little hand would pop up that over their mouths if they hit the wrong note. [laughs] Rude! So they would, they would purposely sometimes sing the wrong notes, just to watch, you know, to see

Nanette McGuinness  01:35
Your reaction!

Carla Lucero  01:36
Yeah! And then also, my dad had an accordion. And he said that he would play high notes and you know, something kind of peppy, and I'd be very happy. And then you play the low notes, and I start crying. And, you know, so they knew that I was very musical, you know, at a very young age. So they started me on piano lessons at four years old.

Nanette McGuinness  02:02
Early!

Carla Lucero  02:03
Yeah, early because they couldn't keep me away from [laughs] musical instruments! They'd lose me in department stores and find me, you know, and those old department stores where they're actually musical instruments, they find me like reaching up trying to play the piano and whatever was there, I outgrew my teacher are pretty quickly at about nine, and then then I was officially on the track to become a concert pianist. I started taking lessons from another amazing teacher. And so when I auditioned for CalArts, I got in as a piano major. All throughout this time, though, my my specialty of childhood, and adolescence, I was writing little tunes. You know, I was very, I always had music in my head. And I would, because I had the piano lessons, I could jot down melodies and, and all of that. What I found out, though, in college later on, was that I wasn't being trained theoretically, you know, I was being trained as a technician.

Nanette McGuinness  03:12
Correct.

Carla Lucero  03:13
Yeah. But really not understanding what was happening, the theory behind what I was playing, and then writing, you know, I basically, you know, they were melodies and, but I didn't understand, like, I would write accompaniment, but I really didn't understand what I was writing. So, but I knew I wanted to be a composer. And I was, I'm deathly afraid of performing.

Nanette McGuinness  03:39
Oh...

Carla Lucero  03:40
Yeah, lots of performance anxiety. So, but I thought, a. I didn't think there were any living composers. And b. I thought, "Oh, my God, oh, you know, a woman? I'm nuts!" So my first year of being a piano major, I audited composition courses theory classes, in particular, because I thought, you know, what is this you know, what is this, you know, the theory and all of that, and I audited the classes and understood what the professor's were expecting of their students. So I put my portfolio together in the first year as a piano major, and then transferred, made my change to major to composition, and they got me in as a second year student got a pretty good portfolio. But as soon as I got there, and I noticed this when I was auditing the classes, there's not a woman in sight, you know, not not any students, nor are the professors, you know. All men. And to add to that, no people of color.

Nanette McGuinness  04:53
Yeah.

Carla Lucero  04:54
The only time I would encounter people of color was in more of like the general music courses, you know, people who are not really not specializing in either performance or composition. It's just, you know, overall,

Nanette McGuinness  05:13
General Ed.

Carla Lucero  05:14
Yeah. And yeah, but in terms of my fellow students in my major, I was the only woman and I was the only person of color.

Nanette McGuinness  05:26
Wow.

Carla Lucero  05:27
It was insane. And I remember when I told my parents that I had changed my major. My mom said, "I'm gonna kill myself!" [laughs] I swear. She thought my life was over because I wasn't going to be a pianist. And, you know, this is they invested everything in, in that dream. But then also, and then my dad asked, you know, "Are there living composers?" You know, it's like, it's like, was like me saying, I want to be a unicorn basically.

Nanette McGuinness  05:59
Right.

Carla Lucero  06:00
You know, it was really difficult because I felt...my parents always supported me, you know, no matter what, but this was a real, real hard left, you know, for them.

Nanette McGuinness  06:14
Yeah.

Carla Lucero  06:15
As for my professors, they were supportive. And there were women in the performance, as performance majors. A lot of them. But yeah, just in composition. I was it.

Nanette McGuinness  06:32
Wow.

Carla Lucero  06:33
And then I learned about Pauline Oliveros. And I thought, "Oh, my God, there is a woman composer!" So I was like, Oh, I gotta, you know, find out more about her. And, and that kind of led me on a journey where I could find some role models. But in terms of having a role model there during my education. No, I didn't have that.

Nanette McGuinness  06:59
Yeah, you mentioned that your dream seemed impossible because of your gender. And that when you switched, you were the only woman. I think you said in your bio, that you were the only woman in your graduating class.

Carla Lucero  07:11
Right.

Nanette McGuinness  07:12
So I'm sure as you've described, it feels isolating. Would your path have been different in any way if you've been able to see yourself reflected in your mentors and teachers in school, I get the Pauline Oliveros was, thank goodness there for you to look up to once you did some digging around or were able to, but in terms of your own educational environment, would that have made a difference do you think?

Carla Lucero  07:39
It would have made a huge difference. I feel that I made some compromises in my life early on, because I felt that that basically, what I was gonna try to what I was trying to do, was nearly impossible. The compromises I made, were, you know, working in the film industry. And because this is in LA, and trying to go that route, because I felt that there was no room for me, or a place for me, in the classical world as a composer.

Nanette McGuinness  08:20
Right.

Carla Lucero  08:21
So I think that my where I am right now, I think I would have been where I am right now, maybe 10-15 years ago, if I hadn't, I don't want to say wasted my time, but you know, what I mean, I, I feel like I could have used that time to develop my craft, and, you know, really challenge myself more musically, rather than create what was expected.

Nanette McGuinness  08:54
Right. Interestingly, the whole industry is kind of shifting in that direction. In part, I think, because that's where the funding is. A lot of people will hear your work, if you're involved in that kind of stuff. And that is gratifying. But it is definitely a different path and a different avenue. And what you're saying about not having any theoretical underpinning matches my own background for what it's worth that it wasn't till college, that I got ear training and theory. So I think unless one grows up in a very specific kind of environment, or household or region, that's probably what happens. It has its pluses and it's minuses. That's the best way to put it.

Carla Lucero  09:37
Yeah, it's interesting, because I think that there's no substitute for having a great ear.

Nanette McGuinness  09:45
Yeah.

Carla Lucero  09:45
No, that's there's no substitute for that. And I think in a way, even though it might be more challenging when once we get to college, you know, taking those courses and, and thinking oh, wow, you know, it takes a little while to connect those dots. You know, to understand, really, you know what's happening, but once it does, once you do, you know, a whole different world opens up. So yeah, but I do think I think there's something to this because I remember my fellow students when I was a piano major there, the male students seem to have much more theoretical background in music, and the women, my fellow students who are women, were really technically amazing. But there didn't seem to be that greater understanding of really what was happening within the music, what the composer was intending on a theoretical level, and, you know, and all of that, so, so I kind of I kind of felt like that when the expectations of somebody are set, this is what what you're going to do this is you're going to be really good at this. You don't...and there's, I think there's something else that that goes on, that is more about you don't need to know this stuff. You know, you don't need to know this stuff, because you're going to be technically great at this one thing.

Nanette McGuinness  11:24
So kind of an unconscious systemic bias.

Carla Lucero  11:28
I really believe that's, that's what was happening. And what I didn't realize that, you know, when I was taking piano lessons, but when I got to college, right, I thought, "These people are talking about things that I have no idea about. And that's when I thought I need to get my butt to some theory courses." You know, I need to audit.

Nanette McGuinness  11:49
Yeah.

Carla Lucero  11:51
So I understand what's happening and I'm really glad I did. But But yeah, like you said, there's There are pluses and minuses, right? Pros and cons about this, because I don't think my ear would have developed in the way it did had I been trying to make sense of it all the time and analyze it and all of that.

Nanette McGuinness  12:15
[OUTRO MUSIC BEGINS] Thank you for listening to For Good Measure, and a special thank you to our guest, Carla Lucero, for joining us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our podcast by clicking on the subscribe button, and support us by sharing it with your friends, posting about it on social media, and leaving us a rating and a review. To learn more about E4TT, our concert season online and in the Bay Area, or to make a tax-deductible donation, please visit us at e4tt.org. This podcast is made possible in part by a grant from the California Arts Council and generous donors like you. For Good measure is produced by Nanette McGuinness and Ensemble for These Times, and design by Brennan Stokes, with special thanks to co-producer and audio engineer Stephanie M. Neumann. Remember to keep supporting equity in the arts and tune in next week "for good measure." [OUTRO MUSIC ENDS].