Nina Shekhar - Part 8

For Good Measure, by Ensemble for These Times (E4TT)
Episode 113: Nina Shekhar - Part 8

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In this week’s episode, we talk to Nina Shekhar about her advice for emerging artists, censorship she's experienced, identity and approval, and a few upcoming projects. If you enjoyed today’s conversation and want to know more about Nina Shekhar, check her out here: https://www.ninashekhar.com/. This episode was originally recorded in December 2023.

This podcast is made possible in part by a grant from the California Arts Council and generous donors, like you. Want to support For Good Measure and E4TT? Make a tax-deductible donation or sign up for our newsletter, and subscribe to the podcast!

Intro music: “Trifolium” by Gabriela Ortiz, performed by E4TT (Ilana Blumberg, violin; Abigail Monroe, cello; Margaret Halbig, piano),  as part of “Below the Surface: Music by Women Composers,” January 29, 2022
Outro music: “Lake Turkana” by Marcus Norris, performed by E4TT (Margaret Halbig, piano), as part of “Alchemy,” October 15, 2021

Transcription courtesy of Otter.ai.
Buzzsprout: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1903729/15258875

Producer, Host, and E4TT co-founder: Nanette McGuinness
Co-producer and Audio Engineer: Stephanie M. Neumann
Podcast Cover Art: Brennan Stokes
Interns: Renata Volchinskaya, Sam Mason, Hannah Chen

Curious to hear a little music from our guest Ursula Kwong-Brown, who we spoke to in our most recent episode, check out the world premiere of the work she just wrote for us, which we are performing on our season opening concert November 8.

Chapters

• 0:43 What advice would you give to young women artists and emerging artists and composers of color? I know the term "emerging artists" has become a bit of a flashpoint, but we don't really have anything else yet to substitute.
• 7:44 Yeah, I think that makes sense, especially for young women in all cultures, because we get, we get very far by figuring out how to get approval, right? And how to get that A plus or whatever. But there comes a point where, as an artist, if all you're...
• 9:54 Do you have other recent or upcoming projects you'd like to tell us about? Or tell us more about your dissertation projects, whatever you'd like!

Transcript

Nanette McGuinness  00:00
[INTRO MUSIC] Welcome to For Good Measure, an interview series celebrating diverse composers and other creative artists sponsored by a grant from the California Arts Council. I'm Nanette McGuinness, Artistic Executive Director of Ensemble for These Times. In this week's episode, we continue our conversation with Nina Shekhar, who we spoke to in December 2023. [INTRO MUSIC ENDS] What advice would you give to young women artists and emerging artists and composers of color? I know the term "emerging artists" has become a bit of a flashpoint, but we don't really have anything else yet to substitute.

Nina Shekhar  00:43
Yeah, so in terms of advice I could go with, you know, I think, ultimately, I think the biggest advice for anybody is that, you know, their voice matters, and that they shouldn't be afraid to say what they want to say, how they want to say it, you know, regardless of what anybody else thinks, or other constraints that are put on them, and I think that this especially goes for, you know, like young women, or non binary artists, you know, composers of color, I think, so often, like marginalized identities tend to be constrained in a way that it's like, we're so afraid of taking up space, especially like young women, I think, like, it's so we're conditioned, you know, by society to kind of take as little space as possible. Yeah, I think that it's been a real, like eye opening journey for me. I think, you know, I'm still a young woman and kind of feeling the last few years, like, just kind of how I've been thinking about that idea of taking up space, how I engaged with my own voice and how I speak up, like, and, you know, I think also related to this is, you know, a lot of Asian identity, like culturally, we're taught to, like, keep your head down and be quiet, don't disturb, just like, move ahead, like, don't bother with like, you know, kind of trying to dismantle anything, you're just kind of keep your head down. And I think both of that, I think it's been really interesting as I move through the field, and kind of counter a lot of fears I had about speaking up and, and taking up space. But then also, I think, related to that, is, I think men are conditioned, that they should take up as much space as possible, but then they think everybody else should too or like that's like the like, they should be like them, when actually I think maybe there's, maybe it's a good thing, that we should take up as much space because we have a sense of empathy. Like, I actually think like, I critique that notion of like, everybody should be as loud as possible, because I don't think that's true. I think that, really, we should be listening to each other a lot more, we should be making space for others, to have their own platform. And, you know, I think that that's something that I think about for younger artists, you know, as we move through the field, it's really scary to, like, you know, put yourself out there and especially in a time where it's like, identity is so...policed, or, so...

Nanette McGuinness  03:52
Fraught?

Nina Shekhar  03:52
Yeah, fraught, I would say! And it's just so like, scary, right now to, you know, be honest about your own experiences. And in feel like you can say what you want to say without somebody else censoring it or, or changing, you know, your honesty and what you want to say. So, I think that, ideally, I would think that that's the most important thing for young artists, for them to have that be able to move to the field and be able to create the work that they want to make without having fear of being censored in some way. And I'm saying this because I had had a few experiences, especially like after 2020 I think, you know, with everything going on socially around that time. It's like a lot of organizations suddenly felt like they were on like hot coals. And were like really afraid of everything and also not really understanding how to deal with change and actually, like, meaningful change. Like, I think there was a lot of this kind of like putting a bandaid on things, but not actually wanting to change things. And like, yeah, in 2021, I had a couple pieces censored for different reasons. Yeah. And it really affected me and that contributed.

Nanette McGuinness  05:20
What happened?

Nina Shekhar  05:21
Um, there were just certain instances where, like, one piece, the Bach piece actually was somebody programmed, it was already an existing piece, you know, it wasn't like it was a commission. And then somebody thought it was too political, that like, "How dare I take apart, Bach?" it was like, actually a real issue for somebody. And then, on the other side of things, it was like a piece where I wrote something about immigrant identity. And it had a lot of double meanings. And the ensemble did not understand any of those things and thought that it was like this really vanilla. Like, they didn't understand that there was like this kind of...

Nanette McGuinness  06:07
Subtext!

Nina Shekhar  06:08
Yeah, subtext, and they thought it was not, essentially, like, not a [laughs] traumatized piece enough. And so like, it's like, kind of the opposite things that have happened. And I think it contributed to some of the burnout that I felt and after that year, and I think, you know, since then I kind of been really thinking about, like, what is it that I want to say? And how can I preserve that space for myself, or I can say what I want to say and make sure that I don't feel like, I'm stifling my voice in any way, and that, like, ideally, what we want is a field where everybody has the agency, has the platform, to speak their own truth. And yeah, I've been trying to make sure that I can do that and feel like I have that. And, and I do feel like I have that now.

Nina Shekhar  07:06
And I think I just always empathize, you know, with other young artists who are just starting and, you know, are really afraid, their next paycheck, you know, I'm like, you know, how, like building their career, building a network and being so afraid of being censored in some way. Like, I think that it's really important to me that they, they feel like they have that space, where they can be themselves.

Nanette McGuinness  07:06
Good.

Nanette McGuinness  07:31
Yeah, I think that makes sense, especially for young women in all cultures, because we get, we get very far by figuring out how to get approval, right? And how to get that A plus or whatever. But there comes a point where, as an artist, if all you're doing is trying to get approval, you are censoring yourself, and you aren't hearing your own voice, and if you don't hear your own voice, you can't authentically share it with other people, and they will sense that you aren't in some way. Right?

Nina Shekhar  08:08
Right. Exactly. Yeah, it's the sense of needing approval is so interesting, because I think about that many aspects of my personal life, you know, and many aspects of my life, but, yeah I think in a career sense, also, it's like, we're constantly looking for, you know, a good review, for some sort of well known institution to program us or commission us like approval from all of these other entities, you know, getting into a degree program like approval from, like a academia like all of these things, and yet, it's like, "Wait, what is it that we actually want to do? Like, what is it that we want to say?" and I think it's tough to kind of opt out of that, like constant need for approval by these other entities, but I think it's really important that it's almost like building your own network of approval, like on a different, like opting out from these structures so that you can have your own space to do what you want to do, or a different community community of people who have the same values as you and like, share your goals, you know, which might be different than like, these other entities' goals. So it's a challenging thing to kind of mediate. But ultimately, I think that's really important.

Nanette McGuinness  09:38
I agree. Totally agree. Do you have other recent or upcoming projects you'd like to tell us about? Or tell us more about your dissertation projects, whatever you'd like!

Nina Shekhar  09:48
Yeah, so I have several upcoming projects, a couple concerto or orchestra kinds of projects, so I mentioned, you know, with the Sound Investment Composer, I'm doing a piece with LA Chamber Orchestra, which for next spring it's going to be premiered then and kind of a fun piece! I'm working through it and exploring different ideas through this process, and, you know, trying, kind of, it's a little bit more of me thinking sonically and like, I want to write certain fun things instead of thinking quite as conceptually. But it's been a nice break, I think, for me to try to do that and just have fun with that orchestration process. And after that, I'm also writing a accordion Concerto for a really incredible accordionist named Hanzhi Wang. And she is such a wonderful musician, just so expressive in her playing. She is kind of a virtuoso also, she like technically is extremely gifted. And she's done surprisingly, quite a bit of contemporary music. She, she actually worked very closely with Sofia Gubaidulina, an album of accordion works. And she's used to that process of collaborating with composers. So it's in a way that I don't think is expected of accordionists. So it's kind of...I'm excited for that, that's coming up the following year. And it's like, also, for me, kind of a new challenge. You know, I always want to learn something new with every work I do. And with this, obviously, no, I'm not an accordion player. I do not own an accordion. I have very little experience with that. And I it's like a really fun challenge to just like understand this very different instrument and how it functions. And yeah, I'm excited for this project, because it's very different than anything I would have done before.

Nanette McGuinness  12:10
And it's got a cool timbre.

Nina Shekhar  12:15
Right! It's a beautiful...I mean, I always love the sound of the accordion, like I would always want to use, like accordion samples in, like electronic works of mine and things like that. But I, um, yeah, it's like a fun challenge for me to have to, like, actually understand the physicality of the instrument and how it works just mechanically. But like, technically possible on it. So yeah, so that's coming up and excited for it.

Nanette McGuinness  12:48
I can't wait to hear both of those. Is there anything that I didn't ask her that we didn't talk about? That you wish I had, or that we had?

Nina Shekhar  12:57
I feel like you did such a good job, writing such a holistic range of questions! And I just really, like grateful to you for really researching so much about me and my practice and in asking such thoughtful questions. I can't think of anything else to talk about you did such a great job already.

Nanette McGuinness  13:21
Well, you gave great answers. So it was fascinating hearing about your practice and how your mind works because what you're doing is very mindful, and very thoughtful. So it's really interesting to hear about.

Nina Shekhar  13:36
Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. No, trying to learn something new, like I do. So. I yeah, all I can say is, we'll just keep learning and growing. I really appreciate that.

Nanette McGuinness  13:53
Yeah. Let's, let's end the interview with... or the conversation, really, with mutual admiration. And my thanks to you for doing this.

Nina Shekhar  14:01
Oh, thank you so much, Nanette, it was so great to talk with you today.

Nanette McGuinness  14:05
Thank you.

Nanette McGuinness  14:06
[OUTRO MUSIC] Thank you for listening to For Good Measure, and a special thank you to our guest, Nina Shekhar, for joining us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our podcast by clicking on the subscribe button, and support us by sharing it with your friends, posting about it on social media, and leaving us a rating and a review. To learn more about E4TT, our concert season online and in the Bay Area, or to make a tax-deductible donation, please visit us at e4tt.org. This podcast is made possible in part by a grant from the California Arts Council and generous donors like you. For Good Measure is produced by Nanette McGuinness and Ensemble for These Times, and design by Brennan Stokes, with special thanks to co-producer and audio engineer Stephanie M. Neumann. Remember to keep supporting equity in the arts and tune in next week "for good measure." [OUTRO MUSIC ENDS].