Nina Shekhar - Part 2

For Good Measure, by Ensemble for These Times (E4TT)
Episode 107: Nina Shekhar - Part 2

Looking for a way to listen to diverse creators and to support equity in the arts? Tune in weekly to For Good Measure!

In this week’s episode, we talk to Nina Shekhar about her creative life during the pandemic and her overall practice as a composer. If you enjoyed today’s conversation and want to know more about Nina Shekhar, check her out here: https://www.ninashekhar.com/. This episode was originally recorded in December 2023.

This podcast is made possible in part by a grant from the California Arts Council and generous donors, like you. Want to support For Good Measure and E4TT? Make a tax-deductible donation or sign up for our newsletter, and subscribe to the podcast!

Intro music: “Trifolium” by Gabriela Ortiz, performed by E4TT (Ilana Blumberg, violin; Abigail Monroe, cello; Margaret Halbig, piano),  as part of “Below the Surface: Music by Women Composers,” January 29, 2022
Outro music: “Lake Turkana” by Marcus Norris, performed by E4TT (Margaret Halbig, piano), as part of “Alchemy,” October 15, 2021

Transcription courtesy of Otter.ai.
Buzzsprout: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1903729/15255745

Producer, Host, and E4TT co-founder: Nanette McGuinness
Co-producer and Audio Engineer: Stephanie M. Neumann
Podcast Cover Art: Brennan Stokes
Interns: Renata Volchinskaya, Sam Mason, Hannah Chen

Chapters

• 0:22 In this week's episode, we continue our conversation with Nina Shekhar, who we spoke to in December 2023.
• 0:30 You talk about, you know, you had some downtime for the first time in a while. For me, I find those times are rare and precious, but also really important for creativity, that, you know, when you're constantly focused on driving forward to...
• 3:22 What did you do when you were feeling burnt out at the end of 2021? To bring that joy back? Other than looking at your schedule and going, "Oh, Houston, there's a problem. We are making an adjustment here."
• 6:04 And before the pandemic, you were building your career, and then all of a sudden, there it was, it's an interesting moment. What do you do now?
• 7:36 I love the way you describe yourself in your bio. I've read this description in another place as "a composer who explores the intersection of identity, vulnerability, love, and laughter, to create bold and intensely personal works." So...

Transcript

Nanette McGuinness  00:00
[INTRO MUSIC] Welcome to For Good Measure, an interview series celebrating diverse composers and other creative artists sponsored by a grant from the California Arts Council. I'm Nanette McGuinness, Artistic Executive Director of Ensemble for These Times. In this week's episode, we continue our conversation with Nina Shekhar, who we spoke to in December 2023. [OUTRO MUSIC ENDS] You talk about, you know, you had some downtime for the first time in a while. For me, I find those times are rare and precious, but also really important for creativity, that, you know, when you're constantly focused on driving forward to whatever deadline you're working on. It works. But the really interesting stuff happens when there's some blank time.

Nina Shekhar  00:55
Definitely I, you know, I keep thinking back, you know, a few years ago, it's funny with a pandemic, a lot of people found some downtime. But for me, I actually, my work load picked up during the pandemic, and I was extremely busy. And then right after 2020, like the year 2021 was the busiest year I've ever had. And it was probably, like, I think I must have written 14 pieces that year...

Nanette McGuinness  01:26
Oh my goodness!

Nina Shekhar  01:27
Including like, some, like a 20 minute orchestra piece, including like some very large works. It was, I was so burnt out after that, and I just kind of, I was proud of what I had written, but it's like, you lose some joy, you know, when you don't have that time to recharge, that time to experiment. Also, you know, when you get constantly a deadline after deadline, it's like crunch time you just churn out what you know, is going to work without getting that that time to learn and grow and experiment and just try new things. And I think since then, I've kind of taken the time to rearrange my schedule, in the sense where I mean, I still I'm busy, but I like to give myself some space, or at least try to fit in some, like passion projects with my things that I want to do for me are things for me, like time for me to just try different kinds of things. And that I wouldn't otherwise do if it was like for a back to back commission. And so that's been really important to me, because it helps me replenish that that sense of joy, you know, that sense of like, why is it that I'm doing what we do? And it's like, if we think about the arts, it's like, if we're not, it's not making us happy? It's like, why would we do it? You know, that's the whole point: that it makes us happy and makes other people happy. And in a different way than like, like being a doctor, like being an engineer, like when I could have done something else that would have been, like, maybe a much more financially lucrative path or something like that, but it wouldn't have brought me the same joy, and that's why I chose to be in this field. So I'm trying to make sure I preserve that. And I'm very protective now of my time and how I schedule things because I want to make sure I preserve that sense of like excitement over what I do.

Nanette McGuinness  03:20
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. What did you do when you were feeling burnt out at the end of 2021? To bring that joy back? Other than looking at your schedule and going, "Oh, Houston, there's a problem. We are making an adjustment here."

Nina Shekhar  03:32
[Laughs] Yeah, you know, I, I just took a lot of time off. I mean, I definitely, I think a lot of I was lucky and that a lot of organizations were really understanding because they were also kind of reeling still from the pandemic. And so there was like this strange, liminal kind of thing, where suddenly some projects like, like, wait, are those still happening? Like, it was like, kind of confusing, just because so many things had changed. And a lot of these projects had been thought about, like before the pandemic and then it's like, suddenly, circumstances changed for everybody that they just weren't possible anymore. So that helps. So I was able to kind of clear out some space, but then, you know, I also just wanted more time to do other things to, like, cook, go outside, on walks to like, you know, try other hobbies, things like that, like give myself the space to, you know, I had this era that I was trying to do a lot more writing and like writing poetry and things like that, and maybe also doing more like songwriting, like things that were kind of different than my otherwise like concert music practice. And that really helped me you know, just kind of think, in a different way when I think about artistry and making things. And I think suddenly, when I was seeing that art making could be approached from many different angles, I think it just made me feel excited that like, "Oh, this is something new I can try." This is something that, like, I always want to just constantly be learning and like trying new things. And like, if I'm just doing the same thing over and over again, then it sometimes doesn't feel that way. So, like need, I realized I need to have that instinct, like, being able to have that moment of like, I want to do something new with everything I do, and learn something in that process.

Nanette McGuinness  05:41
Yeah, be a human being. And also when you're a polymath, which you are, and I am, and so I get this. if you're not constantly learning, and evolving, it really does stifle the joy. And part of what keeps us fresh and alive is new and exciting toys to take out of the toy chest, you know, and look at them different ways. And before the pandemic, you were building your career, and then all of a sudden, there it was, it's an interesting moment. What do you do now?

Nina Shekhar  06:12
Exactly, it's like an interesting, I'd like the shiny, I'm always trying to find a new shiny thing that I can work on. And I, I guess, actually, a big thing that I did around that time was I started doing a lot more multimedia work and started doing a lot more video work. And that was something I had never done before. So it was like a new thing, I could learn a new way of exploring, like the visual language, rather than the musical language, which was very new to me. So and I think because, you know, in any practice, like, in our field, it's like, we've learned all these rules that are not necessarily actual rules, but we think we have to follow them. And so, like, musically, and like all these conventions that have to follow musically, but then I don't know what the conventions are in the video world, like, I don't know, aesthetic practices, like if, for me, it was fun to make different things. So I think that was another way I was finding a lot of joys because for me, it just felt like play like there's just trying different things without worrying about like, "Oh, does this fit in with this aesthetic camp?" Or like, "does this follow this rule or something like that?" And, you know, that's something I think also was important to me during that time.

Nanette McGuinness  07:31
Yeah, yeah, the joy in play as it were, that's so nice. I love the way you describe yourself in your bio. I've read this description in another place as "a composer who explores the intersection of identity, vulnerability, love, and laughter, to create bold and intensely personal works." So...it's just so cool! And it fits pretty nicely with what you were just describing as well. Can you talk about that? Your practice, how you came up with that description, you know, all that.

Nina Shekhar  08:01
You know, I, I feel like all of those things in that statement, all those adjectives are very much related to my practice. I mean, as I mentioned, the identity is really important to me as an artist, and that kind of came from, for lack of a better word, I had like an identity crisis, and, like, towards the end of my undergrad, and I think that around that time, there was just like, a lot of things happening socially. I think it was, like, post me too. It was, like, I was kind of struggling a little bit just in terms of racial identity and, and finding a community. And I think, because of that, like I was really, in, you know, I around that time, I had done a piece related to obsessive compulsive disorder, which I have and kind of being open about that. And I realized that I was starting on this direction, to make very vulnerable work and really thinking about myself as a person and in, in my voice being represented in what I do. And this identity crisis I had, I think, was, I think, I felt like all these people were expecting my music to sound a certain way based off of what they thought it should sound like. Like, I think a lot of people knew that I was Indian American, and they thought my music should sound more "Indian" and whatever they thought that meant or like, or like they thought it wasn't Indian enough or was to India, it was like very confusing to me. And it is usually always people who were not Indian themselves making these claims. So for me, it was like, "Well, how do I sound like me in my music?" and then I realized, like my core value nowadays, which is that all art is rooted in identity. Like, anybody, our identities are going to inform what we make in our all of our decisions. And that will in turn inform our creative practice and I for me, and identity in a really holistic sense, right? It's beyond my racial identity, or the fact that I'm a woman. It's also like, you know, my family, it's like, my neighborhood I grew up in, you know, like, where I went to school, like, all of these things are, of course, going to inform what I do and then kind of thinking about that, from..in another sense of, like, what is my identity relationship with a performer's identity, you know, or an audience member and kind of expanding on this idea of identity. So, that was like a big, crucial thing. And that's why it's like, the first thing that said, in my, in my bio, but and I mentioned, like, vulnerability, like, I started writing these very vulnerable pieces, and I think it was, I kind of thought slowly, kind of explore that idea of vulnerability, differently over time, and, you know, sharing things about myself, but also making sure I protect myself and what I feel comfortable with in the process. But, but then this idea of love and laughter, you know, ultimately, I think it's like, I want a space of empathy, you know, with anybody who's going to be receiving my work, and to kind of have this communal space. And, you know, I mentioned that the piece I wrote about obsessive compulsive disorder with that I had a lot of really nice discussions with, with audience members, or who wrote to me and said, Oh, they had similar experiences, or they could relate to it in certain ways, which I thought was really special to me. And, and laughter also, it's just like, I don't know, I don't take myself very seriously. I'm, like, always kind of just joking around. And, and I like to find elements of humor, even like that piece I'm talking about, like, a lot of things are quite funny in the piece if you don't know what it's about. And that's like, the whole point. And, and I see that, like, I find humor in a lot of situations. So that's really important to me, and all of these ideas, even the word "intersection", like intersectionality is all about, like, this idea of multiple identities overlapping and for me, like intersectionality was a really important concept, just, you know, as a woman of color and, and kind of wanting to understand the specific challenges related to that. So I feel like all of those words are like very specifically chosen, and it's like, I haven't really had to dissect that before, but I It's definitely like, every word is meant to represent something different about my artistry.

Nanette McGuinness  12:52
No, yeah, it's great because it is precise and detailed and wonderful. That's why I wanted to ask you about that. The whole reductionist notion to a human being is fraught with problems. That's all I can say. We are more than the sum of our parts.

Nina Shekhar  13:09
Exactly, yeah, true.

Nanette McGuinness  13:12
[OUTRO MUSIC] Thank you for listening to For Good Measure, and a special thank you to our guest, Nina Shekhar, for joining us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our podcast by clicking on the subscribe button and support us by sharing it with your friends, posting about it on social media, and leaving us a rating and a review. To learn more about E4TT, our concert season online and in the Bay Area, or to make a tax-deductible donation, please visit us at www.e4tt.org. This podcast is made possible in part by a grant from the California Arts Council, and generous donors like you. For Good Measure is produced by Nanette McGuinness and Ensemble for These Times, and design by Brennan Stokes, with special thanks to co-producer and audio engineer Stephanie M. Neumann. Remember to keep supporting equity in the arts and tune in next week "for good measure." [OUTRO MUSIC ENDS]