For Good Measure, by Ensemble for These Times (E4TT) Episode 23: Darian Donovan Thomas (part 3)
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In this week’s episode, we talk to Darian Donovan Thomas about the back story behind his piece, "Kid Gunner Brother," and, as an Afro-Latino, what feels different about living in New York vs Texas. If you enjoyed today’s conversation and want to know more about Darian Donovan Thomas, check him out here: darianthomas.myportfolio.com . Parts of this episode originally premiered on December 2021, found on Youtube, click here.
This podcast is made possible in part by a grant from the California Arts Council and generous donors, like you. Want to support For Good Measure and E4TT? Make a tax-deductible donation or sign up for our newsletter, and subscribe to the podcast!
Intro music: “Trifolium” by Gabriela Ortiz, performed by E4TT (Ilana Blumberg, violin; Abigail Monroe, cello; Margaret Halbig, piano), as part of “Below the Surface: Music by Women Composers,” January 29, 2022 Outro music: “Lake Turkana” by Marcus Norris, performed by E4TT (Margaret Halbig, piano), as part of “Alchemy,” October 15, 2021
Transcription courtesy of Otter.ai.
Producer, Host, and E4TT co-founder: Nanette McGuinness Audio Engineer: Stephanie M. Neumann Podcast Cover Art: Brennan Stokes Interns: Roziht Edwards and Merve Tokar
[INTRO MUSIC] Welcome to For Good Measure, an interview series celebrating diverse composers and other creative artists sponsored by grant from the California Arts Council. I'm Nanette McGuinness, artistic executive director of Ensemble For These Times. In this week's episode, we continue our conversation with by Darian Donovan Thomas, who we spoke to in November 2021. [INTRO MUSIC ENDS]. I first encountered your music and Kid gunner brother, a fabulous spoken word piece based on a simple hand game, which you wrote when you found out your then 11 year old brother felt he needed a gun to protect us from ISIS. But as a mixed child, and Texas didn't know about the KKK. Could you talk about the work and its inspiration?
Darian Donovan Thomas:
Yeah, of course. My brother's great. I love my little brother. He's hilarious. We're 13 years apart. And he's starting to do music consult, which is really fun. Yeah, but we were just we were having this conversation at a Pizza Hut, which is like pizza. It's all over that piece. And I would love to be sponsored. But Oh. So pizza hungry. You're listening. Right? Yeah, we were just talking. And he was talking about. He's very, he's much more boy than I am. So he's always really love guns and violent things as any little boy does. And it's great. But this time in particular, I was just like, this is interesting. And I want to know more. So I was like, Why? Why so much with the guns? And he's like, Oh, because did you know like, something's coming? And I was like, what's coming? Like ISIS was like, no, no, no. We need to, we need to fix this immediately. So we had a family conversation. And like, it's not it's weird, I guess some retaliation to this Pete sometimes from people where they're like, well, terrible parents, like how can they let him know about ISIS or something? And like, for other people just being like, I don't know, they're gonna get weird responses to the piece. And I'm like, No, this isn't on us. This is like a public school thing. And this is his friends, like, being able to open carry at school. And like, all these things, you know, it's like, this is a different. This is just Texas. That's like, kind of outside of our hands, then that's why the conversation happened. Because we were like, oh, we need to handle this, because it's obviously not being handled at school. This, like what kind of school teaches about like, some things that weren't, I mean, he was an American school, and especially at Texas school, but like, the idea of teaching about the troubles and problems and terrorist groups from so far away. Before talking about the terrorist groups in your backyard, it's just so asinine to me. And I would want other people to feel that same level of absurdity, you know, whenever they think about that, be like, oh, yeah, why is it so much ISIS, ISIS, ISIS, not like, especially in this context, where recent turn towards like more of the police, or like the kk k, or the connections there? And like, there's so many things here that need to be handled? Why? Why are we demonizing other whole other countries and like older people before, really assessing our own demons. And I felt like this piece through its absurdity, and like, putting it in that format of a hand game, because the whole situation is really absurd and silly, but also so serious, could help communicate the point to people. And that's one of them, where people were like, Yeah, strange experiences that people have is really strange, because people will laugh at points, which is good, that's the goal. But also, I had parents coming up to me afterwards and be like, I was crying during that, you know, like, very, very different, but visceral responses to the piece. I think it does what it needs to do. It just does. Its austere and recontextualizes thing that we all know, but we don't get to talk about as much.
Nanette McGuinness:
Very much. So it's like in the musical South Pacific. The lyrics say, you've got to be taught before it's too late to hate all the people, your relatives hate, you've got to be carefully taught. And this is what kids are learning socially at ages 456. When they're at the hand game stage, long before they're making many or even any intellectual connections about it. Plus, if we as a society, as you say, demonize those far away, then we don't have to look too hard at our own backyard and our own prejudices and demons. So this also acts as a good societal diversion. Right. As you were talking, I was thinking about Texas versus New York. I made a similar move. I grew up in Texas. And then I went to college in upstate New York, I found there was quite a difference in the ethos. You spend your time now in Brooklyn, but you're clearly connected to San Antonio. So if you feel like answering, do they feel different to you? What's it like having a foot in both camps as it were?
Darian Donovan Thomas:
It's interesting. I feel like there's a weird there's certain things that feel much more aware and much more liberal and therefore much more comfortable. But there's also a lot of things that happen. Where like, the North will demonize the south often. And that feels really curious to me. Because I don't know I'm anyone can fact check me on this. But I think that like the most registered like, a K organizations are actually in New York State. Like, no way. Yeah, it's not a sudden thing, you know, so I get a lot of this where it's like, Oh, my God, you're from the south. I'm like, Y'all need to not with that. Because it's YouTube, you're not exempt. You don't get to just say like, Oh, my God, weird. Like, I don't know, because we didn't pick the right side hundreds of years ago, we get a carte blanche. No, no, no, lots of very bad things happening up here too. And it's interesting, but like, at the same time, it feels easier to be, I think the thing that's different is that you feel like you have more support from higher up in the government up here. Whereas in Texas, it's very clear that like, even in San Antonio, which is like, majority Brown and Latino, like you feel I feel like I'm really comfortable being next being Afro Latino, they're being queer there. But I know that that kind of stops, the second that we get above, like, local government, you know, like any support that I have is at the personal level, or at the mayoral level, or doesn't go much past that. Whereas up here, it's like, I can have support from people around me. And then I can have support from the government and I it's easy to get health care, and it's easy to do all the things I need to with my health care. And that feels very different. But at the same time, there are still almost because of that there are these prejudices that happen that are blind spots for a lot of people where it's like, oh, you actually that's not as advanced the thought as you think it is. Which is a weird, it's weird. So it's kind of like nowhere, it's perfect. Which is a double edged sword. Like it's good news, and it's bad news. But I definitely prefer living up here. Maybe just because this is where I filled the communities for myself. And this is where I know, VR I want to make has avenues of being displayed.
Nanette McGuinness:
[OUTRO MUSIC] Thank you for listening to For Good Measure, and a special thank you to our guest, Darian Donovan Thomas for joining us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our podcast by clicking on the subscribe button and support us by sharing it with your friends, posting about it on social media and leaving us a rating and a review. To learn more about E4TT Our concert season online and in the Bay Area where to make a tax deductible donation, please visit us at www.E4TT.org. This podcast is made possible in part by a grant from the California Arts Council and generous donors like you. "For Good Measure" is produced by Nanette McGuinness and Ensemble for These Times, and designed by Brennan Stokes. With special thanks to audio engineer extraordinaire Stephanie Neumann. Remember to keep supporting equity in the arts and tune in next week "for good measure." [OUTRO MUSIC ENDS]
I first encountered your music in “Kid Gunner Brother,” a spoken word piece based on a simple hand game, which you wrote when you found out your then-eleven-year-old brother felt he needed “a gun to protect us from ISIS, but as a mixed child in Texas...